Other Things
“Sometimes I look in the mirror and I think: Heather, this is not good.”
Welcome to Other Things, an interview series where I talk to restaurant workers about the other things they spend their time doing. So many people I know lead double lives, waiting tables to fund their creative pursuits, often unbeknownst to coworkers and patrons. Working in hospitality often demands a sort of flattening of the self—we exist in service of the customer, as a gesture in a landscape, a momentary presence. In this environment, it can be difficult to feel connected to one’s creative practice and the version of the self who participates in it—the other things seem less real than the work that actually pays the bills. I wanted to give my friends and fellow servers, bartenders, etc. an opportunity to reveal themselves as real people with thoughts and interests and ambitions—to talk about the work that hospitality serves. Mostly I wanted to figure out how everyone else is doing this and when they find time to eat breakfast.
I was very excited to talk to my friend Heather about her life outside her serving job because she is very funny and has a lot to say, and also because she offers, I think, a unique alternative to the archetype of the working artist. I think many people admire restaurant workers because of their status as artists—as though hospitality work is a difficult but necessary sacrifice one must make for their art. Working in a restaurant becomes more valuable and justifiable when it is in service of some loftier goal—a goal which ultimately, it is assumed, will relieve the working artist of this burdensome labor. (Success in hospitality often means leaving hospitality.) But what counts as a goal worthy of enduring this job? I have wondered, as a working artist whose art, after many years, has not really blossomed into any tangible thing beyond its daily labors, if I can really say why I do this. Has the point of bartending always been to serve some purpose beyond it? And what if that purpose is less defined, not quite as locatable a goal as I once thought it was? I don’t quite consider my relationship with hospitality to be as transactional as this—I genuinely love it and have loved it and think it is significant and essential and life-giving—but I have been asking myself lately if my affection for it is contingent upon my efforts to leave it, or if leaving it is contingent upon finding success as an artist. And what if I never do?
This is all to say that, while I think Heather has experienced a similar crisis and is actively seeking a way out of the service industry—an industry which, after all, does not offer much in the way of long-term stability, making all of these ideas somewhat irreconcilable with the material demands of contemporary life—for the brief period of time I have known her, she has offered me model for a life of serious engagement with art that is as rigorous as it is profoundly personal. Knowing Heather has made me consider what a life of and for art could look like if aspiration and productivity were replaced with deep, unyielding commitment. What dos a restaurant job mean if it allows a person time and flexibility to listen and think and exist, rather than provide enough output to rationalize such freedoms? A full, fulfilling life for life’s sake?
Would you like to tell me a little bit about what you do? Both in terms of your job that makes you money, and then also how you spend your time outside of it. I know you have a rich and storied history in hospitality. So if you’d like to start there and give us some background, tell us how you got from there to here.
Listen! Listen. I’m sorry—I’m taking this so seriously.
You don’t need to take it seriously.
Okay, as you know, I came to New York to be an actor. And for many reasons I never truly pursued it. I took lots of classes, and I was always “trying,” but I never really knew how. There are things I would have changed if I could go back in time, but there are also things I don’t think I could have changed. Acting is still my first love and it’s what I would do in a heartbeat if the opportunity presented itself. But still, to this day, I feel like I don’t fully know how to approach it. There’s a lot there in terms of why I feel that way—some of it I should probably talk to a therapist about.
Perfect, you can talk to me about it, this is basically therapy.
But you know what I mean? Just—confidence and stuff, and I always thought, “Next year I’ll be ready to really do this.”
In college I studied history and art history even though I had no intentions of pursuing those things. I did my undergrad in three years, and I studied abroad three times—I was literally just going to college to travel and to study whatever I wanted. And in some ways it was the right move for me to not go to school for theater, but I do think that studying acting would have given me the industry knowledge that I ended up feeling like I was missing, and maybe that could have helped me understand the business more.
After I graduated I moved to New York, and technically my first restaurant job here was at an Irish pub on 53rd. I worked there for two weeks and then it burned down. They basically called me before my third or fourth live shift and said there was a fire in the kitchen and we had to close for the day. And the next week I went to pick up my paycheck, and I caught a glimpse of the kitchen and it was… a horror movie of just, like, ash. And I was like, “Oh… I don’t have this job anymore.”
What an introduction into this industry!
So then a friend helped me get my first restaurant job at what was then a very trendy, upscale restaurant. So within the first few months of living in New York, I was working there. And it was definitely an environment where lots of people were pursuing acting and other things, it was a restaurant of actors, performers, writers, whatever. But at the same time, I don’t necessarily know that people were finding much success. And very quickly this restaurant became my whole job and kind of my life. There were certainly times when I was more actively pursuing acting, but it was never with enough ambition—well, I’m not sure I necessarily want to say that—but never with enough direction to really get me anywhere.
I built my whole social network in New York at that restaurant. I started there after living here for two months. My best friends, to this day, are the people I met there. I don’t know who I’d be without some of those people. I was there for seven years. I did quit twice to travel, but I came right back—you couldn’t take more than two weeks off at a time or you had to quit, so a couple times I was just like: Here is my two-week notice. I will be reapplying on X day.
Why did you decide to leave hospitality?
I just knew that it wasn’t what I wanted to be doing. And some of it is very simple, like—the hours. I realized I wasn’t using the job to my advantage as a way to survive, to get somewhere else, and I had to accept that I wasn’t pursuing acting hard enough to actually do it. So then I was like: I don’t want to still be doing this in ten years. Some people do; I didn’t. It was making me feel bitter, and I just needed more of an income. I needed to be able to take a week off and still get paid, and I didn’t want to work nights all the time. So I got a job in marketing. And it was, like, a horrible experience. It was not a good environment. And what made it worse was that I thought that this was my opportunity to get somewhere, to move in a different direction, but then it was just awful and I hated it, and then I got laid off.
Now I’m back to part-time restaurants, part-time marketing/social media freelance. Full-time job hunting. It’s still without a lot of direction. I don’t know. I still feel very lost.
Do you want to talk a bit about how you spend your time outside of your job and applying for other jobs?
So when I went to school, even though I didn’t major in theater, some of my closest friends were film majors. I did not grow up with parents who, like, introduced me to film, or introduced me to books or art or culture. I grew up in very rural Pennsylvania.
But then when I was in college I had some friends who were learning about and studying film, so I was exposed to that world. We would do these movie nights where we’d pick a theme and rent 5 or 6 movies from the library to watch based on this theme. It was a very film bro time of my life—the two themes I was most interested in were the mob movies and Quentin Tarantino.
I think I’ve only properly understood and gained an interest in film in the last few years. I’ve always been pretty obsessive about going to movies, but not obsessive in the way I am now, where I treat it like a part-time job—sometimes a full-time job. I definitely feel like in the past few years I have a better understanding—or I’m really trying to understand—film as an art form.
Do you feel like your process of gaining knowledge about what films are and how they work and how to critique them was a result of just watching a lot of movies, or did you explicitly seek out that kind of specific education?
I think I’m still in the process of educating myself. Honestly, the way it started was just listening to podcasts about movies and the culture around them—about movies and actors and film festivals and critics. And that’s helped me understand the wider conversation around movies and film, sort of introduced me to that language and that world. But it’s not a clear path, and I don’t think I’m there yet. Like, this year, even more than I’ve done before, I’m setting real goals for myself. I want to watch 50 classic films this year.
But I just learn and pick up on things over time, and my knowledge and experience slowly expands. Like, for example, I never used to watch horror. I was terrified of horror when I was growing up.
Me too.
I hated horror movies—hated them—
I still haven’t seen Sinners, I’m too scared.
You can watch Sinners. I promise you, Sinners is not horror in the way that you think it is. Even when I didn’t watch any kind of horror, I would have watched that.
Okay okay, fine.
Okay, well I know I’m all over the place. But I have Regal Unlimited, and one of my friends does as well, which has really opened things up for me. I mean… there’s a lot of movies to see. I don’t know if you know this—there are an incredible amount of movies. I know that people are always talking about how scary the film industry is, and all the struggles of independent film, and, like, okay. But. There are still so many movies. When someone tells me there’s no movies out, I’m like... Shut up. Let’s open our phones. Let’s look up a movie theater. I promise you, there are a ton of movies.
Anyway. When I was in my 20s, I really felt like I needed to see only meaningful films, only the really good movies—the things that are going to be up for awards, the things that people were talking about. And what’s been fun lately is just going to see stupid horror films sometimes—these stupid films that I wouldn’t have seen in the past because I thought it was a waste of time. Like, yes, I saw I Know What You Did Last Summer. And I had a blast.
I do about a 50-50 split of going to the movies on my own and going with someone, but I used to pretty much only go on my own. I shouldn’t say that actually. I have one friend who I regularly went with back then, and—Emily, you never had Movie Pass, did you?
No.
I just want you to know that you missed out on maybe the best six months that someone who likes movies has ever had. It was beautiful. I’ve never experienced anything like it and I’ll never experience it again. You go to any theater in the city... And you just... $10 a month! It was the worst business model that has ever been created. If you went one time, they already lost money on you.
Anyway. That’s besides the point.
I probably would go to less of these movies than I would if I didn’t have my friend Jess to go with. That’s why I’ve been interested in horror more recently—it’s just fun. I go with my friend, we laugh, we have a good time.
And in that way, I feel like, in addition to your movie watching as this personally fulfilling endeavor, you’ve also built a community around it. And then movies become this way that you spend time with your friends and also have conversations with other people too. I go to work and I’m talking with coworkers about the movies we’ve seen, and we’ll be like, “I can’t wait to hear what Heather thinks about it.”
Oh my god, do they really do that?
They do really do that! You’re sort of known for this.
Right, like I’ve definitely seen the movie you’re talking about.
Yeah, and everyone knows it, and everyone knows that you have an opinion about it.
I love having an opinion.
I feel like you are someone who sees movies in such a dedicated, committed way, more so than most people I know.
I had to make a spreadsheet last year because it got so challenging.
But I find it extremely inspiring that you treat this, as you said, like a part-time job. How do you prioritize that and also, like, how do you rationalize making it a priority? Maybe that’s a little blunt, but I actually find it very admirable that you make this such an integral, important part of your life, while you also have multiple jobs, friends, job applications, life stuff...
Well, Emily, sometimes I can’t rationalize it. Sometimes I look in the mirror and I think: Heather, this is not good.
[We are both laughing a lot at this point.]
So, I guess what we should start off with is that I have a little bit of an obsessive personality. One might say. I can tell you how many times I’ve been to the theater the past three years. I can’t tell you how many movies I went to see in 2017 because I didn’t track it. And maybe that was freeing… maybe that was better for me in some ways.
But there’s a sort of intentionality about the way you do it now, which creates both a sense of obligation and fulfillment, all of which I would think feels very motivating.
It is motivating. I do feel a sense of accomplishment.
I want to do more with it, and I’ve been saying this for a long time, but I want to start writing more. I have a lot of self-doubt about it, and I don’t think that I have a background that has prepared me to pursue writing in that way. But this year I would like to start a Substack where I take a couple of little notes about the movies I’ve seen. Just a writing exercise, if nothing else. A couple of paragraphs about the different films that I’ve seen that week.
I don’t know how to bring myself to sit down and do it though because when I sit down at my computer I panic about not having a full-time income, and I can’t concentrate on creative pursuits. Instead I apply to jobs—I do this thing, like, I black out, and I just apply for 100 jobs on LinkedIn. If there was an award for fastest LinkedIn job applications… someone would give it to me.
But I just, I think what’s really hard is that at this point this interest and obsession—it’s just for me.
Well, yes, and this was one of my primary questions, and the reason that I wanted to talk to you about this is because that aspect of it is evident to me, but I think it’s very inspiring. I think it is so cool to be so invested in something just as an observer or a consumer, and not in a way that is then trying to produce something of your own. And I think that’s actually really cool and very unique. I don’t know people who really do that in the way you do. And I know that you have aspirations beyond that—
I do, and I don’t want to pretend that I don’t dream of finding a way to make this serve my career dreams and ambitions. And even though I’m talking to you about my doubts and not knowing how to get where I want to be, there is a more practical element to all of this. Even with my marketing job—the whole idea was that eventually I could do marketing for a media company or a film production company.
But anyway, to go back to what you were saying, I think some of this just developed over time. I never really had people to talk to about movies. I’d see something and then just read other people’s tweets on film Twitter. And similar to the podcasts, these virtual communities just made me more aware of all of the films coming out, which then becomes a more ambitious project of seeing more stuff, seeing everything, being a part of those conversations.
I also I want to say that when I was younger, I didn’t think I really knew enough to have an opinion. Like, I was always looking for other people to tell me if something was good or bad. And I think every year, as I’ve seen more and learned more, I’m more confident that I can actually decide what I think is good or bad. And just because this person who I respect doesn’t like this, or they do like it, and I feel the opposite way, that’s okay. So I’m enjoying talking about stuff more and having stronger feelings and being more comfortable making opinions rather than just needing someone else to tell me what’s really good.
Yeah, and that comes from just engaging with it more.
Yeah, and I would like to continue to find more of a community, whether that just means getting my friends to watch more things or if that means looking around for film clubs to join or something. Unfortunately, there’s just limited time in the day. It is so hard! It is so hard to find all the time you want for everything! And to rest!
I know. Which leads me to my next question! I mean, I guess like I sort of already asked this, but I’m gonna ask again: how do you balance your film hobby with your life—both as, you know, a person exercising and sleeping and eating and applying for jobs and also, your job as a restaurant worker.
So, I don’t always do it well, but—
Who does?
Who does! I mean, I’m really good at, like, getting up and out. Which I think is why I’m pretty obsessive about seeing things in theaters—it’s the experience! It’s just not going to be the same on my TV. And I find it very hard to not glance at my phone when I’m home, whereas when you’re in the theater, you can’t think of anything else. And so I think for me, the physical act of going to the movies helps me manage my time. It’s written into my schedule. I book tickets sooner than I want to because then I have to go. So I’ll book a ticket today for Sunday night so that I can’t back out. And this is where someone else might go, “But no one’s making you do this but yourself.” But it matters to me.
And I feel like I’m on a roll with it more than I’ve ever been. Like it’s easier to keep going, to educate myself, to learn more, as I gain momentum.
Can you articulate why you bring such dedication and rigor to this, or what about that feels fulfilling to you?
I don’t know. I mean, I love films, and I like the experience of watching movies, and I am learning to enjoy talking about them more. And maybe some of it is still, whether I want to admit it or not, this hope that eventually one day I’ll figure out a way to have this be a bigger part of my life or my career. I always talk about starting a podcast, or doing TikTok or something. But I feel so resistant to it because I read real critics who really know what they’re talking about, and what the heck do I have to contribute? I know that that’s silly. But it goes back to why I went to college for history and art history—I just wanted to learn. I don’t know that I have a good, articulate reason for that other than I like feeling like I’m a person who has things to say.
Okay, I’m just going ask one final question: can you map out for me a day in the life, beginning with what you eat for breakfast.
Okay. A day in the life. Am I working in a restaurant on this day or am I not?
Let’s say yes.
Oh, wow. Well, that’s going to mess me up actually. That’s a more boring day in the life.
Okay, okay, one of each.
Let’s pretend I am working a restaurant shift—I will wake up. I will eat a couple eggs.
How do you eat your eggs? You can’t skip over this question!
Oh, I’m so sorry. I have two ways. One is more like a real meal, like over easy with a slice of toast or something. But if I’m doing a workout, which I’m gonna use in this example of the day, I have these wraps that I use, and I do a couple egg whites with a little vegan cheese. I’m not vegan, but if I eat dairy in the morning…
And then go to an exercise class?
Things go wrong. So very specifically, first thing in the morning, I can’t eat dairy. This is riveting content for your blog.
It’s perfect, exactly what I wanted.
Okay, so I’m probably going to Pilates. I’ve had to transition to mostly Pilates because I have some pretty chronic knee issues that aren’t getting any better.
And every day I say, “Heather, I’ll go up and down the stairs for you,” and you say, “No no!”
Because I have to! It’s my job. Please let this be on the record—she tries to run food more than I do, but we have an equal job, so it doesn’t matter that my knees are bad, I have to walk up and down the stairs.
But you don’t have to because I could do it for you! Anyway.
Anyway so I’m probably going to a Pilates class. When I come back from that, I’m sitting down and applying to jobs for a little bit, or I am doing my freelance work. If I could get to the place I want, I’d also do some writing about the things I’ve seen and watched and all that, but we’re not there. If I have time, maybe I’m going to the movies before I go to my shift. Maybe this day I’m just going to my shift. Maybe this day, I’m not working, and I’m just going to the movies. On a beautiful day off, my favorite Friday—one of my favorite movie times is, 9:45, 10 in the morning. You sneak that bagel in. The Regal employees, they don’t care. You put a hat over it. They’re not searching your bag. And you sit, and you clock in, and you watch a movie.
And then when the movie’s done, my friend leaves and sometimes I’ll go get a coffee or a snack, and honestly, if I don’t have work that I have to do, I’ll clock back in for a second shift.
